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Susie of Stoned Affection is a practicing entomologist who has been raising moths and butterflies—and raising awareness of them—since 2014. She also creates beautiful art from lepidoptera taxidermy. This week Susie joins Sean to talk about what it’s like to work with moths and butterflies, especially the ethical considerations that go into sourcing and raising both native and tropical species. If you’ve ever wondered about butterfly farming, butterfly houses, and sending live specimens through the mail, this is the episode to satisfy your curiosity. You’ll also find out what Susie thinks of lepidoptera in media, whether butterflies make good pollinators, and what the differences are between butterflies and moths. 

To learn more about Susie, her art, and her outreach, visit her website at www.stonedaffection.com, or catch a Twitch live stream at https://www.twitch.tv/stonedaffection.

You can also find Susie on social media: 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@stonedaffection 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stonedaffection/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/stonedaffection 

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Timestamps

00:46 Introducing Susie of Stoned Affection|

03:21 Name Origins: Plants Always Win

05:00 Ordering Insects by Post

07:45 The Difference Between Moths and Butterflies

11:40 The Family Lepidoptera

12:50 Butterflies are Surprisingly Nasty, Little Creatures

14:23 Moths That Can’t Eat

16:12 Are Butterflies Good Pollinators?

17:35 Making Silk from Silk Moths

19:25 What do Moths Get Up to at Night?

22:30 Ethically Sourcing Tropical and Local Insects

27:00 Farmed Tropical Insects

28:00 Butterfly Houses: Good or Bad?

30:50 Susie’s Favourite Squeaking Moth Species

33:10 Susie’s Favourite Butterfly

35:19 What Happens when a Butterfly Pupates?

40:28 Lepidoptera in Movies and TV Shows

43:20 Susie’s Public Outreach Work

47:14 Sean’s Relationship with Insects

50:40 Jumping Spiders as Pets

54:52 Earthworms in North America

58:45 Susie’s Plugs

1:04:15 Susie’s Word of Wisdom

1:04:30 Conclusion and Contact Us

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As a changeable April wears on, spring-hungry northern gardeners are anxious to get seeds planted. But should they start those seeds indoors with grow lights or on a widow sill? Or can they put them directly in the ground outside (if the snow ever melts!)? That’s the subject of this versus episode.

Normally, Erin and Sean compete to see who can make their versus topic more interesting. This week, it’s more of a collaboration. Erin gives us the rundown on materials needed for direct sowing (not much but a rake and a gentle watering head are your friends) and Sean does the same for seed starting, covering grow lights, types of soil and soilless media, fans, and more. They compare the pros and cons of each method, which plants have a preference for one or the other, and what gardeners need to know about timing, growing season, and microclimates. They also shine a light on common seed-starting mistakes and explain how hardening off works. As always, accessibility and flexibility are Erin and Sean’s watchwords; as they say, failure is a common part of gardening and anything is worth an experiment. By the end of the episode, you’ll have your own ideas germinating about how to make the most of your gardening season .

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Timestamps

00:12 Introduction

00:44 What’s Growing On: Erin’s Seed Snails

02:50 What’s Growing On: Sean’s late-season winter sowing

05:17 The Plant Face-Off, Sort Of

05:32 Water Break

05:38 Definitions: Direct Sowing

06:16 Definitions: Seed Starting

07:05 When do I Direct Sow my Seeds?

12:35 Winter Sowing: a Hybrid

13:20 When do I Start Seeds Indoors?

18:46 Materials for Direct Sowing

21:33 Materials for Seed Starting

22:49 Soilless Media

24:02 “With Mycorrhizae” Advertising

31:04 Which Plants To Start Indoors or Out?

37:10 Containers and Up-Potting

37:43 Hardening Off and Transplant Shock

42:45 Pros of Starting Seeds Indoors

45:05 Pros of Direct Sowing Outdoors

48:14 Sean’s Biggest Problem: Managing Moisture

49:22 Erin’s Biggest Problem: Labels

53:06 Outro

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Plants always win…and to manage it, they need insects, arachnids, and other creepy-crawlies on their side. Of course, those creatures need plants too. In this episode, Sean and Erin are joined by Kelly and Amanda of Bugs Need Heroes. And what happens when you cross-pollinate a gardening podcast with one where an entomologist and an illustrator create bug-based superheroes? There’s a lot of laughter, a heaping scoop of science, and the birth of a new squad of garden defenders.

Insects and their compatriots come armed with some pretty impressive real-world superpowers that savvy gardeners can use to their advantage. This week’s discussion delves into the incredible diversity of insect species, the role biting insects play in pollination, the importance of leveraging friendly neighbourhood garden expertise for advice that suits your location, and the villainy of spraying for mosquitoes. Then there’s the highlight of the episode: superhero personas based on the denizens of the garden, including bumblebees, wolf spiders, and…well, you’ll have to listen to find out.

Want more of Kelly and Amanda? Visit the Bugs Need Heroes website at https://www.bugsneedheroes.com/ or find their Reddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/BugsNeedHeroes/. 

Fact Check:

The year of the last recorded death by black widow venom in the United States is stated on many websites as 1983. Wikipedia offers a link to the Clinical Toxicology paper this fact apparently comes from, although the link is broken.

If you have questions of your own or if you want to weigh in on these topics (we love learning new things through respectful discussion!), email us or reach out over social media.

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Remember that you can get Q&A priority and other perks by supporting us on Patreon. 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citation

Bumblebee Proboscises by Rusty

Burlew, R. (2024, July 8). Hey bee, stick out your tongue and say “Ahh.” Honey Bee Suite. https://www.honeybeesuite.com/hey-bee-stick-out-your-tongue-and-say-ahh/

Timestamps

00:00 Introducing Bugs Need Heroes!

02:40 Bugs are everywhere

03:22 How Many Wolf Spiders? We Don’t Know. 

04:45 Plants vs. Insects: How they Make New Ones

07:40 Amanda’s Real Superhero Background

09:20 Kelly’s Real Bug Background

10:53 Mosquitoes are Essential, Actually (Stop Spraying!)

17:43 Context! Nuance! Location Matters.

21:26 The One Species Kelly would Remove from Earth

22:30 Yes, Sean has Mites in his Eyebrows (So Do You)

23:40 Insect Superheroes

24:56 Erin’s Insect Hero: Just a Happy Lil Bumblebee

30:45 Kelly’s Insect Hero: Wolf Spider

32:46 Black Widow Bites

37:16 Maman the Spider Sculpture in Ottawa

40:03 The Hunter Hunter Phagogenesis Tangent

42:15 Amanda’s Luck-Powered Hero Insect

47:50: Sean’s Serviceberry Hero

51:18 Is Superman a Plant?

57:33 Snail Teeth are Stronger than Diamonds

58:50 Our Hero Costumes

1:01:16 Shout-Outs

1:02:30 Outro and Contact Us

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We’re cultivating a safe space to ask gardening questions!

We have been plotting for some thyme to add some dedicated Q&A episodes to the recording schedule. While we love seeding quick questions into the end of a show, and while many of our most popular episodes have sprouted from a particularly juicy inquiry, there are plenty of other questions that merit ten minutes of discussion rather than sixty or two. In this inaugural Q&A special, we tackle a bushel of cedar and shrub questions and spend some time in the vegetable garden as well:

• Do you need to mitigate any environmental impacts when removing cedars near your home?
• Are the rumours true? Is using cardboard mulch in your veggie garden unsafe?
• Why do some people call Rose of Sharon a “dirty” tree?
• When an old cedar hedge develops gaps, how can they be filled?
• Can you shorten an established cedar hedge that’s giving too much shade?
• What’s the best soil-to-compost ratio to help a struggling vegetable garden?

If you have questions of your own or if you want to weigh in on these topics (we love learning new things through respectful discussion!), email us or reach out over social media.

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Remember that you can get Q&A priority and other perks by supporting us on Patreon. 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

Understanding PFAS

Our current understanding of the human health and environmental risks of PFAS | US EPA. (2024, November 26). US EPA. https://www.epa.gov/pfas/our-current-understanding-human-health-and-environmental-risks-pfas

Figure out if your cardboard mulch has (significant amounts of) PFAS

Olson, T., & Olson, T. (2024, May 23). Is cardboard mulch toxic? – Mother Earth News. Mother Earth News – the Original Guide to Living Wisely. https://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/gardening-techniques/is-cardboard-mulch-toxic-zm0z24jjzols/

Debunking the anti-cardboard crusade

Hoag, M. (2024, April 2). Addressing the 2024 cardboard Sheet-Mulching myth madness. Transformative Adventures. https://transformativeadventures.org/2024/04/01/debunking-the-2024-cardboard-sheet-mulching-myth-madness/ 

Timestamps

00:11 Introduction

00:53 What’s Growing On? Erin’s False Spring

04:36 What’s Growing On? Sean’s Pupdate and Seedling Roulette

17:10 Water Break

17:26 Removing Cedars Near a House: Environmental Impacts?

12:35 Is Cardboard Mulch Really Unsafe?

24:48 What Gives Rose of Sharon a “Dirty Tree” Reputation?

31:18 How Can You Fill in Gaps in a Sparse, Old Cedar Hedge?

37:10 Can You Shorten an Established Cedar Hedge?

48:55 What’s the Best Soil-to-Compost Ratio for Veggie Gardens?

57:37 Invitation to Conversation

58:39 Conclusion and Contact Us

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Carol Michel is a garden author and co-host of The Gardenangelists podcast. She boasts of having the world’s largest hoe collection…which is overshadowed only by her library-worthy collection of gardening books. Among the hundreds of volumes on her shelves are hard-to-find copies of books by a number of American women who were horticultural experts of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, but who have been all but forgotten by history. To honour them, Carol started a Substack called the Lost Ladies of Garden Writing. On this week’s episode of Plants Always Win, she invites us into some of their stories. 

Publishing styles and garden trends change over time, but some things stay the same. People want to know how to make their poinsettia re-bloom, how to get rid of pests, how to find the hottest new cultivar. Carol uses genealogical records, newspaper archives, and Google Books to piece together the lives of the women who were answering those questions in decades past, then shares them with her subscribers. It’s a project of passion and dedication, and it has given her some extraordinary stories to tell!

Lost Ladies featured in this episode include:

• Cynthia Westcott, who saved the Azaleas of the southern United States 
• Grace (G.A.) Woolson who was, as America’s foremost fern expert, often assumed to be a man
• Viola Brainerd Baird, whose 1940s Wild Violets of North America is still unmatched
• Kate Brewster, whose book The Little Garden for Little Money was somewhat hampered by her own wealth
• Alma C. Guillet moved from Toronto to New York City and catalogued all the trees and shrubs in Central Park
• Mrs. L.L. Huffman, who wrote under her husband’s initials and was actually called Minnie Enola

Some better-known ladies of garden writing are also mentioned:

• Cassandra Danz, A.K.A. Mrs. Greenthumbs
• Elizabeth Lawrence, whose Charlotte, North Carolina garden was so beloved it’s now part of a bird sanctuary
• Jean Hersey, whose book The Shape of the Year is still read and enjoyed

To enjoy more garden gab with Carol, find her in the following places:

• The Lost Ladies of Garden Writing Substack, which is updated weekly with new lost ladies
• Her helpful weekly gardening newsletter, In the Garden with Carol J Michel
• The Gardenangelists Podcast, which she co-hosts with Dee Nash
• Her website, caroljmichel.com, where you will also find her books of humorous and helpful gardening essays:
• Potted and Pruned: Living a Gardening Life
• Homegrown and Handpicked: A Year in a Gardening Life
• Seeded and Sodded: Thoughts from a Gardening Life
• Creatures and Critters: Who’s in my Garden
• Digging and Delighted: Live your Best Gardening Life

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Timestamps

00:30 Introducing Carol Michel

01:30 The World’s Largest Hoe Collection

04:45 Carol’s Gardening Book Library

07:40 The Lost Ladies of Garden Writing Project

10:30 Garden Writing Then and Now

11:34 Cynthia Westcott, PhD: The Gardener’s Bug Book

13:48 Can We Trust Old Gardening Books?

15:18 Buckner Hollingsworth, Gardening on Main Street

16:51 Carol convinces Sean to Become a Collector

19:57 G.A. (Grace) Woolson, Ferns

24:39 Elizabeth Lawrence, A Southern Garden

26:29 How Carol Does her Research

27:38 Writing Under their Husbands’ Names

29:33 Kate Brewster, The Little Garden for Little Money

30:41 Jean Hersey, The Shape of the Year

34:36 Alma C. Guillet, Make Friends of the Trees and Shrubs 

35:20 Cassandra Danz, Mrs. Greenthumbs

38:54 Carol’s “Humorous but Helpful” Gardening Books

39:07 Find Carol Online

40:53 Contact us and Outro

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Soil is the foundation of a healthy garden…or homestead…or farm. For sustainable gardening that gives us nutritious food without depleting the land, we need to know how to feed and maintain living soil. After all, it’s the community of living things in the soil that feeds the plants we eat ourselves. That’s where Michelle Bruhn comes in. Michelle is a suburban homesteading author, speaker, and educator who manages the online information hub Forks in the Dirt. This week, she joins Erin (who’s always excited about home-scale regenerative agriculture) to talk about how she has turned a sandy suburban lot into a tiny paradise that produced almost seven hundred pounds of food in 2024.

Through the course of this conversation, Michelle gives us the dirt on a range of organic practices that build soil, feed it, and maximize its effectiveness, even in a short growing season. We’re talking composting in place with sheet mulching, lasagna gardening, and hügelkultur; supporting healthy soil food webs with companion planting, mulch, and cover crops; and extending the growing season with cold frames, hoop houses, and even plastic bins. If you think you’re already a master of all these things, so did Erin—and this interview got her out gardening in the early-March snow to try something she’s never done before.

If you want to keep learning from Michelle Bruhn, check out…

• Her online hub, Forks in the Dirt: (Here you’ll find courses, resources, and recipes for homesteading and gardening).
• Her book, Small-Scale Homesteading, co-authored by Stephanie Thurow
• Stephanie’s fermentation books which Michelle shouted out during the episode: 
• Michelle’s Substack newsletter

You can also find her on social media:

• Instagram: @forksinthedirt
• Facebook: @forksinthedirtmn

Citations:

Jeff Lowenfels’ book Teeming with Microbes, which discusses how adding Nitrogen fertilizer to soil decreases the Nitrogen produced by bacteria:

Lowenfels, J., & Lewis, W. (2010). Teaming with Microbes: The Organic Gardener’s Guide to the Soil Food Web. Timber Press (OR).

Michelle’s recommended source on nutrients and wood decomposition (correction: from USDA, not US Forest Service): 

Marcot, B. G. (2023, February 10). Ecosystem processes related to wood decay. DecAID. https://apps.fs.usda.gov/r6_decaid/views/ecosystem_processes.html

The study on nitrogen immobilization with wood decomposition that Erin referenced:

van der Wal, A., de Boer, W., Smant, W. et al. Initial decay of woody fragments in soil is influenced by size, vertical position, nitrogen availability and soil origin. Plant Soil 301, 189–201 (2007). https://doi.org/10.1007/s11104-007-9437-8

Sepp Holtzer, Hügelkultur expert

Holzer, S. (n.d.). Huegel Culture Design. Sepp Holzer Permaculture. Retrieved March 10, 2025, from https://www.seppholzer.info/huegel-culture-design/

Michigan State Extension Services study on the pest suppression abilities of mustard as a cover crop

Snapp, S., Date, K., Cichy, K., O’Neil, K., & Michigan State University, Department of Crop and Soil Sciences. (2006). Michigan farmers rely on a wide range of cover crops as vital management tools. In Michigan Farmers Rely on a Wide Range of Cover Crops as Vital Management Tools. https://midwestcovercrops.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/MI_2006_Mustards-A-Brassica-Cover-Crop-for-Michigan.pdf

Utah State Extension publication on squash beetles and blue Hubbard squash

USU Extension IPM program. (2021). Blue hubbard squash as a trap crop to suppress squash bugs. In USU Extension IPM Program. https://extension.usu.edu/planthealth/ipm/veg/Trap-Crops-Squash-Bugs.pdf

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Timestamps

00:11 Introduction

01:00 Michelle Bruhn and Forks in the Dirt

03:10 Michelle’s Suburban Homestead

03:26 Lawns for Bees and for Kids

06:03 Growing Neighbours through Gardening

08:28 Sheet Mulching for No-Dig Garden Beds

11:39 Urban and Suburban Pollinator Habitat

17:22 Why Compost Instead of Chemicals?

23:10 Water Break

25:00 Leaf Mulch and the Law of Return

28:55 Lasagna Gardening

30:25 Hügelkultur: Turn Wood Debris into Soil

37:58 Fungal Decomposition Beats Bacterial Decomposition

38:48 Permaculture and Indigenous Knowledge

40:47 Companion Planting: Optimize the Plant Community

43:15 Using Trap Crops for Aphids

46:01 Yellow Mustard and Cover Crops

48:23 Growing Zones and Frost Dates

53:42 Season Extension in Cold Climates

1:02:36 Find Michelle Online

1:03:44 Outro and Contact Us

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It’s a concern being voiced by conscientious gardeners everywhere: is it okay to plant a non-native flower that feeds pollinators but also self-sows freely? One suspect that is being discussed in many online gardening groups in borage. It shows up in pollinator-garden seed mixes that the purchasers expected to be 100% native. It features at seed swaps and in seed libraries because its seeds are easy to collect, and established gardeners know it always brings the bees in. But it also sows itself aggressively, and it didn’t evolve alongside North American pollinators. The people want to know: is it problematic to grow it? Is an aggressive plant necessarily invasive? 

That’s the question that sets the stage for this week’s versus episode. Sean takes on the borage question while Erin examines her own potentially-problematic fave, cosmos. They look into each plant’s origins, its spread around the world, and how manageable it is once it’s in your garden. They examine studies about wildlife use and raise questions about nectar and pollen quality. Along the way, they uncover a treasure trove of interesting science…and a wealth of questions still to be answered. 

Who brought the most fascinating facts about their plant this week? Vote for borage or cosmos by tagging us on social media and using the hashtag #PAWFaceOff. 

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

What is Borage?

borage. (2025). In Merriam-Webster Dictionary. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/borage 

A broad overview of Borage

Hageman, B. (2024, December 10). Borage: a beautiful herb with many benefits. Grow Organic. https://www.groworganic.com/blogs/articles/borage-a-beautiful-herb-with-many-benefits?srsltid=AfmBOorlAOi28B_PjvoYMORhIqEzDctHk2McssEbhsKe870WpYnYA8yn

Use of borage for gamma-linolenic acid (GLA)

Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. (n.d.). Specialty cropportunitites – borage. Specialty Cropportunities. Retrieved February 24, 2025, from https://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/CropOp/en/indus_misc/oil_crops/borage.html

Borage’s medical potential

BORAGE: Overview, uses, side effects, precautions, interactions, dosing and reviews. (n.d.). Web MD. Retrieved February 24, 2025, from https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-596/borage 

The origin of the word cosmos for the well-arranged flower and the well-ordered universe

Liddell, H. G., & Scott, R. (n.d.). κόσμος. Henry George Liddell, a Greek-English Lexicon. Retrieved February 24, 2025, from https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=ko/smos

Kosmos Meaning – Greek Lexicon | New Testament (NAS). (n.d.). Bible Study Tools. Retrieved February 24, 2025, from https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/kosmos.html

Growing and keeping cosmos as cut flowers

Boeckmann, C. (2025, February 7). Cosmos Flowers: Planting, growing, and caring for Cosmos. Almanac.com. https://www.almanac.com/plant/cosmos

Care and wildlife use

Iannotti, M. (2024, July 19). How to grow and care for cosmos. The Spruce. https://www.thespruce.com/how-to-grow-cosmos-4125538

An account of leafcutter bees using cosmos

Burlew, R. (2017, March 31). Cosmos: a multipurpose bee flower. Honey Bee Suite. https://www.honeybeesuite.com/cosmos-a-multipurpose-bee-flower/

The food value of cosmos pollen and nectar

Hicks, D. M., Ouvrard, P., Baldock, K. C. R., Baude, M., Goddard, M. A., Kunin, W. E., Mitschunas, N., Memmott, J., Morse, H., Nikolitsi, M., Osgathorpe, L. M., Potts, S. G., Robertson, K. M., Scott, A. V., Sinclair, F., Westbury, D. B., & Stone, G. N. (2016). Food for Pollinators: Quantifying the nectar and pollen resources of urban flower meadows. PLoS ONE, 11(6), e0158117. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0158117

Use of quercetin in cosmos rhizomes for treating malaria

Ali, A. H., Sudi, S., Shi-Jing, N., Hassan, W. R. M., Basir, R., Agustar, H. K., Embi, N., Sidek, H. M., & Latip, J. (2021). Dual Anti-Malarial and GSK3Β-Mediated Cytokine-Modulating activities of quercetin are requisite of its potential as a Plant-Derived therapeutic in malaria. Pharmaceuticals, 14(3), 248. https://doi.org/10.3390/ph14030248

One of many personal accounts of using Sulphureus for dye

Keegan, G. (n.d.). Cosmos. Graham Keegan. Retrieved September 5, 2023, from https://www.grahamkeegan.com/cosmos?srsltid=AfmBOooSp8-OAkqSDU6XCI6pd0VP-Ny6aGKZvqfDgCfORtTfFTHmEuRu

Commentary on the potential invasiveness of cosmos

Ask Mr. Smarty Plants. (2013, April 26). Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center – the University of Texas at Austin. https://www.wildflower.org/expert/show.php?id=9284 

Timestamps 

00:37 Should We Grow Non-Native “Beneficial” Flowers?

01:41 Erin’s Sentimental Attachment to Cosmos

03:53 The Plant Face-Off

04:14 Sean’s Plant: Borage

04:25 The Boraginaceae Family

05:19 Borage Etymology

05:58 True Annuals, and How They Die

12:12 What Makes a Flower Perfect?

14:15 Borage’s Native Range

15:11 Gamma-Linolenic Acid

17:20 Eating Borage

18:44 Borage Benefits and Warnings

21:35 Are Hairy Plants Pest Assassins?

25:05 Do Naturalized Plants Stay Non-Invasive? 

30:56 Water Break

32:33 Erin’s Plant: Cosmos

34:01 Cosmos Name Origins

36:19 What’s a Half-Hardy Annual?

37:31 Uses for Cosmos

38:25 Seeking High-Quality Nectar and Pollen

42:22 Growing Cosmos

43:09 Can You Eat Cosmos? No One Agrees.

47:43 Medicinal Uses of Cosmos

49:25 Cosmos Range and Invasiveness

53:38 Do All Flowers Benefit Pollinators?

56:17 Deciding Whether to Plant Non-Native Flowers

57:46 The Things That Get You Gardening

58:56 Contact Us and Outro

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This week we cover a lot of ground on the subject of groundcovers with Kathy Jentz. Kathy is the editor and publisher of Washington Gardener, the host of the Garden DC podcast, and the author of Groundcover Revolution, a book written to give inspiration and examples for turf grass substitutes that gardeners everywhere can use to find the best plants for their region. They can also use its attractive and accessible photographs to get their spouses and their HOA on board.

We start our conversation by establishing some ground rules: what is a groundcover? Kathy says it’s any plant that covers the ground thickly enough to suppress weeds, which kicks off a conversation about turf substitutes, plant height, maintenance, and moss lawns. We reflect on the history of lawns, the aggressive nature of many groundcovers, and how to manage them through plant choice or through physical intervention. What about avoiding invasive species of groundcovers altogether? Kathy shares some favourites and some species she would never recommend in her region, Washington DC. Erin and Sean offer their own top and bottom choices for Central Ontario and discover, in spite of distance and very different growing seasons, some common ground.

For more of Kathy, you can find her in the following places:

Upcoming speaking engagements

• The 2025 Northwest Flower Garden Festival in Seattle 
• The 2025 Philadelphia Flower Show

Kathy’s Online Platforms

• Washington Gardener Plant Store:

https://shop.kathyjentz.com/

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Kathy’s Books

Groundcover Revolution: How to use sustainable, low-maintenance, low-water groundcovers to replace your turf

The Urban Garden: 101 Ways to Grow Food and Beauty in the City

Books and Experts Referenced in this Episode:

The Magical World of Moss Gardening by Annie Martin, a.k.a. Mossin’ Annie

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Timestamps

00:45 Intro

01:10 Welcoming Kathy Jentz

1:53 What is a Groundcover, Anyway?

03:39 Moss Lawn Appreciation

06:03 Mossin’ Annie, Moss Lawn Expert

08:07 Kathy’s New Book, Groundcover Revolution

09:25 Writing Gardening Books for an International Audience

11:52 Lawns, Landowners, and Historic Showing Off

14:55 Managing Aggressive and Invasive Groundcovers

20:39 A Native Lily of the Valley

24:45 Growing Conditions in Washington, DC

28:49 Growing Conditions in Central Ontario

31:50 Very Different Growing Seasons

34:50 Kathy’s Favourite Groundcovers

40:35 Erin’s Favourite Groundcovers

43:40 Sean’s Favourite Groundcovers

48:28 Gardening with Deer

50:47 Groundcovers Kathy Never Recommends

53:22 Groundcovers that Sean Never Recommends 

54:54 Managing the Mint Family

57:47 Don’t Shame Your Neighbours

1:02:30 Erin’s Least Favourite Groundcover

1:04 Where to Find Kathy

1:05:53 Contact Us and Outro

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This is the second instalment of our two-part Roses vs. Carnations Valentine’s Day special. After Sean eloquently shared his love for roses earlier this week, Erin barges in with the claim that roses are elitist and carnations are the flower of the people. Her focus is Dianthus caryophyllus, a cut-flower relative of some familiar garden flowers like pinks. She takes us back to the Carnation Revolution and other people’s uprisings in which carnations became important symbols, tells us what the name “pink” has to do with dianthus’ ruffled petals, and explores carnations’ aromatic uses. When Erin puts Sean on the spot to describe the science behind why putting food colouring in a carnation’s water source will dye it, he pulls it off admirably and gives us some bonus facts about mineral buildup on tap water-fed houseplants. 

The episode gathers steam with school carnation sales at Valentine’s Day (awkward), Mother’s Day symbology (touching), and the Vicorian language of flowers (not Erin’s favourite thing). Then it winds down with carnation care both in the garden and as cut flowers. 

Are you ready to join Carnation Nation? Or have roses won your heart? Cast your vote by tagging us on social media and using the hashtag #PAWFaceOff. 

Fact Check

We promised to find out which was named first: pinking shears (which cut saw-toothed edges in fabric) or garden pinks (which have petals with saw-toothed edges). The answer is not clear-cut, but we highly recommend the Online Etymology Dictionary’s interesting entry about it: https://www.etymonline.com/word/pink 

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

Carnations overview

Dianthus caryophyllus “Vienna Mischung.” (n.d.). Missouri Botanical Garden. Retrieved February 6, 2025, from https://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?kempercode=z910

Carnations’ Caryophyllaceae relatives 

The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica. (1999, May 4). Caryophyllaceae | Description, Taxonomy, Genera, & Species. Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/plant/Caryophyllaceae

 Growing carnations

NC State Extension. (n.d.). Dianthus caryophyllus. North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox. Retrieved February 6, 2025, from https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/dianthus-caryophyllus/

Caring for your carnation bouquet

Plant Addicts. (2023, April 5). Cut Carnation Flower Care | Plant Addicts. https://plantaddicts.com/cut-carnation-flower-care/?srsltid=AfmBOoomoX8SAtbDhtMp6O2aJ9c0bqjVF7i2Mxq12NotQoMiF1zWtRa-

Carnations Flower Care. (n.d.). Farmgirl Flowers. Retrieved February 6, 2025, from https://farmgirlflowers.com/care/care-by-flower-type/carnations?srsltid=AfmBOoqvVyDnu1wEwiRoqpfa9sYsja3keUGZ6K8yqnNayTL4MsfB6k1Y



Timestamps

1:00 Intro

Erin’s Plant: Carnations

1:38 Dianthus caryophyllus and Family

3:37 Which Came First, the Pink or the Shears?

4:35 Carnation Etymology

6:15 How to Describe a Carnation

9:03 Transgenic Cultivars

11:18 A Symbol of the People

13:32 Aromatic Uses 

15:15 The Science of Colouring Carnations with Food Dye

17:46 Mineral Buildup on Houseplants

20:06 Carnations’ Mild Toxicity

20:58 Valentine’s Day School Carnation Sales

22:48 The Motherhood Connection

22:30 The Victorian Language of Flowers

25:42 Growing Carnations at Home

29:59 Cover your Bare Soil!

32:09 Insects Hosted by Carnations

33:36 Caring for your Carnation Bouquet

40:13 Points per Pun

40:51 Contact Us and Outro

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This is a special two-part Plant Face-Off! We had so much to say about roses and carnations that we had to split the recording into two episodes. In this instalment, we start with some housekeeping, answering the listener question “What is Patreon?”, explaining why we’re phasing off the Meta platforms Facebook and Instagram, and reminding YOU to reach out if you’d like to join the conversation at our Plants Always Win Discord server.

After that Sean takes us through history and around the world with the ever-sweet subject of roses. Learn about the surprising members of the rose family fruit tree, explore their history and symbolism, and learn how to take care of them in your garden—especially here in Ontario. Sean also answers some questions from the internet, such as “Can I regrow my rose bouquet?” “Are rose petals edible?”, and “How can I make my cut roses last?” 

But the face-off doesn’t end here. Come back later this week for Part II when Erin takes the floor with roses’ Valentine’s Day competitor, carnations. Then cast your vote by email on social media with the hashtag #PAWfaceoff. 

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

Roses (native and not) that grow in Ontario

Ontario Trees and Shrubs – Roses Group. (n.d.). http://ontariotrees.com/main/group.php?id=80 

Distinguishing different types of roses

The Different Types of Roses: An Ultimate Guide. (n.d.). Jackson & Perkins. Retrieved February 4, 2025, from https://www.jacksonandperkins.com/ultimate-guide-rose-types/a/types-of-roses/ 

General information about the Rosa genus

roses (Genus Rosa). (n.d.). iNaturalist. https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/53438-Rosa 

Roses and their soil pH needs

Jones, S. (n.d.). Balancing soil pH for growing roses. Santa Clarita Valley Rose Society. Retrieved February 4, 2025, from http://www.santaclaritarose.org/BalancePH.html 

Research into traditional medicinal uses of roses

Schwarcz, J., PhD. (2023, February 8). Valentine’s Day! Time to smell the roses! McGill University Office for Science and Society. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/history/valentines-day-time-smell-roses

Timestamps

00:59 Intro

1:41: Audience question: What is Patreon?

4:37 Social Media Changes

5:59 Merch Update

6:50 Our Discord Server

8:10 The Plant Face-Off

8:32: Sean’s Plant: Roses

9:45 The Surprising Rosaceae Family

12:15 The Symbolism of Roses

13:13 Greek and Egyptian History

14:35 Roses Come From Everywhere!

16:28 A Rose by Any Other Type…

18:16 Growing Roses in your Garden

19:02 Fertilizer Tangent: They Alter pH?

22:34 Pruning and Deadheading your Roses

24:32 Rosehips Don’t Lie: Eating Roses

25:33 Reverting to Wild Rootstock

26:24 What Pests and Diseases? Basically All of Them.

30:01 Rose Fragrances: Perfumes, Oils, and your Grandma’s Soap

31:35 Pigments, Dried Flowers, and Other Uses

33:24 Culinary and Medical Uses (and Speaking to the Deer)

38:10 Answering Internet Questions about Roses

40:49 Regrowing your Bouquet

43:05 Caring for your Cut Roses

46:20 Shoutout to Teacup Miniature Roses

48:14 Outro